over the cliff is okay, because liberals say, you know what, we get those defense cuts we wouldn't get otherwise, and they believe the public would not like to see that, and i think at some point, wolf, you have to say, i don't know when it is, but at some point the president and his people as dana bash was just talking about, need to get to the negotiating table. let's be fair to the house speaker. he put a plan on the table that included revenues, substantial revenues, not raising the rates, i mean, that's the big problem. but he did do that -- lots of outside conservative groups are now railing against him. but he did put something on the table that was a serious plan, and the white house is not dealing with him on it, so the president has leverage, but at a certain point they all have to behave like grown-ups. >> newt gingrich knows something about going eyeball to eyeball with a democratic president. that happened in the '90s with billi bill clinton. listen to what he says about the fiscal cliff? >> i think no deal is better than a bad deal. i think going off this cliff is less da
